The Difference Between Informational Learning and Transformational Learning

Posted by: Jeremy Jones

April 16, 2020


Episode 180: Interview with Barry Pogorel

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Barry Pogorel:

Barry Pogorel is a catalyst for breakthrough performance. 35 years coaching and training leaders all over the world has given him a unique opportunity to discover and systematize a sophisticated, rigorous, transformational consulting method. He works with leaders who aspire to turn the impossible into reality. Barry was born in Culver City, California. He obtained several masters degrees from UC Santa Cruz and UCLA in English literature, painting/film making, and the sciences. He opened an art studio in SoHo/New York City, exhibiting paintings and sculptures in New York and Los Angeles galleries, including showing a body of his work at the Whitney Museum of American Art. A lifelong student and thinker, he became fascinated with the process of creativity itself and the nature of true leadership in any given field. He began studying ontological philosophy, complex systems science, linguistics, and neuroscience. Around 1980, Barry shifted his primary focus to leadership coaching and development through the discipline of transformative learning.

3 big ideas discussed in this episode:

  • Transformational Learning vs Informational Learning. To go beyond incremental improvement–to make something extraordinary happen–requires a true “transformation.” What does really mean? Is it simply a big change? or is it something more than that? A butterfly is not simply an improved caterpillar. It has a whole new realm available to it that a caterpillar does not. Transformal Learning opens up new realms of possibility for human beings.
  • What is Ontological Coaching? how does it differ from conventional forms of coaching? why is it so powerful and effective? how does it differ from the usual psychological approach to coaching? This approach to human beings and their performance began back in ancient Greece…with someone named Heraklitus. Ontological-based Coaching deals with Being–the nature and function of Being. It is dramatically different from Psychological-based coaching. It is designed for authentic breakthroughs in one’s performance in life and work.
  • The Strategic Success Formula: how each human being develops a way to win, succeed, make it in life and business. This formula develops in the course of our lives. It is the source of all our successes and wins–while at the same time being the source of our limitations. Identifying this clearly gives an individual the opportunity to produce a genuine breakthrough in what they can imagine and make happen. It opens up the realm of what is normally considered “impossible.”

To Connect with BIG Thinkers and Hear More BIG Ideas:


Enjoy the episode



“How To Grow Your Online Coaching Business, Get Featured in Media, and Multiply Referrals . . .”

Jeremy Jones

Jeremy Jones


Jeremy C. Jones, a proud military veteran, is also a family man and entrepreneur who lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. His accomplishments include being a four-time #1 Best-Selling Author on Amazon, hosting the popular podcast “Ideas That Make an Impact,” establishing The Book District, and founding and serving as CEO at Jones Media Publishing.



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